The Practice Is the Path — Jiu-Jitsu, Plant Medicine & Embodiment with Andrew Marshall
Welcome to the Deeper You Go, The Weirder It Gets. I'm your host, Garett Renon. So this episode is about my favorite things, Jiu Jitsu, plant medicine, fitness, nutrition, and coaching. And in this episode, I talked to my good friend, Andrew Marshall, who isn't all those things. Andrew is a Jiu Jitsu practitioner.
Garett:He's a black belt and owner of Endurance Jiu Jitsu in Bellingham, Washington. He is a coach. He has experience in plant medicine, particularly Ayahuasca in the Shipibo tradition, and he's gone through a fascinating journey of self transformation. So I think you're going to enjoy this episode. And as always, if you want to support the show, please like and subscribe.
Garett:Get yourself some gear or some products or an unplugged journal. Any of these things really help the show. And all the information about what Andrew has going on will be linked in the show notes. Okay. So let's get on with the episode.
Garett:Yeah. So I'm here on a interview today with the Andrew Marshall. And so how are you doing, Andrew?
Andrew:Doing good, man. Stoked to be connecting with you here.
Garett:Yeah. No. Me too. This is this is really cool. And I'm excited to talk to you because we have a it seems we that we have a lot in common from Jiu Jitsu to fitness and nutrition and plant medicine and coaching and all kinds of different things.
Garett:So I'm excited to hear more about your story. But so to start off, can you just tell me a little bit about, you know, who you are and what you're doing right now, and then we'll start to kinda dig into things a little deeper.
Andrew:Thanks so much, Garrett. Yeah. I'm stoked that we've we've connected and now we're getting to know each other here, and thanks for having me on your podcast. So right now, I own with my wife and I, we own and operate Endurance Jiu Jitsu here in Bellingham, Washington that we just opened up a little over four months ago and that's growing and it's it's going really great. And then I also have a coaching and healing practice, as you mentioned.
Andrew:And for about the past close to ten years, I've been working with people, them do their deep and sincere healing work, awaken to the truth of who they are, strengthen who they are. And, so that those two things are my main work.
Garett:Awesome. So, yeah, I love that, and I love I love the path you're on. So let's let's take it back to the beginning and how what put you on this path?
Andrew:I think the initial catalyst like it is for many of us was pain. Physical pain, emotional pain, not knowing how to take care of myself, feeling spiritually lost. And it was around when I was about 20 years old after I had been you know, some of the things I struggled with from the age of 13 on was like drinking a lot, you know, opiates and smoking and just not not taking good care of myself. I grew up on fast food And so I had a lot of gut issues. I beat the crap out of my body getting in fights, playing football.
Andrew:I there were a lot of good things. I had a lot of good close brothers. I had a lot of freedom to hang out with them and do things. But unfortunately, we used that freedom for kind of crazy, destructive things. And I just I did not have, I needed a lot of help in my mindset work, you know, in in how I felt about myself and how I viewed what was possible.
Andrew:And in knowing how to actually live in a healthy and sustainable way. And so that set me when I was about 20, that set me on a path of like, alright, I gotta change. I gotta get sober. I gotta learn how to study nutrition. I gotta and start digging into this meditation and spirituality thing because I just I feel like shit and I'm lost.
Andrew:And I've it's way too young to be feeling this way. So so I gotta do something about it. So my whole twenties became this very focused journey of healing and and discovering what actually, you know, like what actually fueled me, what actually, allowed me to feel good within myself and about myself. Which led me to doing, you know, going to Peru two times, working deeply with Ayahuasca, working deeply with San Pedro, and, yeah, that Ayahuasca is really what helped me get sober as well. And, then that led me to different trainings and certifications to be able to to now do the work that I do.
Garett:Nice. Was there, like one specific event? You know, you kinda mentioned it was between your was I think 13 20 that you were struggling and and stuff like that. Was there a a particular event where you're just like, enough of this. I gotta I gotta do something else?
Garett:Or was it just a gradual change?
Andrew:It was gradual over a pretty short amount of time to where I realized like I needed to completely change the way I was living. But when I was like 20, right on the edge of 21, I kept going out on the weekends and like drinking way too much and then driving. And then being really pissed at my and then being really pissed at myself because I knew I was lucky that nothing bad happened. And we do other crazy stuff too, but I would just like I started I started actually realizing, oh, maybe it's not a good idea to, like, drink too much and then drive, and then ask my friends, how did we get home last night? And they go, what?
Andrew:What do you mean? How do we get home? We were out here and we were doing this. How did we get home last night? And they're like, dude, you drove.
Andrew:You drove us home. And unfortunately, I had the problem of being a really good designated drunk driver. Like I could drive really I could drive really well, and they didn't even know. But I was like blacked out. Right?
Andrew:I didn't even know that I drove home. And so there were a couple dicey times where like a friend had to grab the wheel because he could definitely tell I wasn't driving well. And so I was just doing a bunch of stupid shit and really tired of it. And I had all this chronic back pain at a really young age and I just, yeah, I just beat the shit out of myself. So I remember sitting on the couch at work, taking a break, feeling this excruciating back pain, feeling all this kind of mental emotional turmoil.
Andrew:And I was just like, I gotta change this. And it felt like it was me, not me. It felt like some kind of grace. It's like, it was like, alright, Andrew, Here's the clearer vision of what's going on. You need to change it.
Andrew:And I said, okay. I literally changed overnight. Like, from one day to the next, I was like, I completely changed my diet. I completely stopped drinking, and just got like super focused. It was a journey after that.
Andrew:There was some back and forth, that but I made the very intentional shift, you know, that day.
Garett:Yeah. Well, that's cool. Yeah. And, yeah, that's that's terrifying to have those experiences of, like, yeah, knowing you drove and then not remembering it.
Andrew:Yeah. Yeah.
Garett:I've had a in my past, I had a few blackout moments from from drinking, and I remember waking up feeling just absolutely terrified. I mean, luckily, I never did anything bad, but just, like, having people tell you, like, oh, you were hilarious last night, or you did this or you did that, and you're just like, oh my god. I don't remember any of that. And that was, you know, that was a big portion of my journey too. Not, you know, that was a part of it, not the not the main thing.
Garett:But, yeah, I I know that feeling of just waking up and just being absolutely terrified and somewhat disgusted, you know, with yourself of like Yeah. Yeah. It's true. Well, one thing I wanted to ask was looking at your website, and we can put a link to that in the show notes and you can talk about that later. But you were saying that you went really hard for several years of, like, meditation, nutrition.
Garett:I think it was, like, no sex, no drinking, no nothing. What was that like? And and what what were you looking for during that time?
Andrew:In one sense, was tough and in another sense, I was so clear on like that that was what I needed to be doing. So that was from between the age of 21 to 24. Like, yeah, like I say, like, I as I started reading these spiritual books, had it in my head that I should be vegetarian. So I went vegetarian, no dating women, no sex, no no drinking, you know, just focused on training Jiu Jitsu, boxing, and working and being really focused in my spiritual disciplines. You know, looking back, it was definitely an imbalanced time as well as imbalanced in the other direction.
Andrew:I didn't need to do it to the degree that I did it. But I don't know, maybe I did. Maybe I needed to like cleanse out in a certain way, in a really intense way. But it sure, gave me a next level of discipline. You know?
Andrew:I I was really focused on just like all the urges, all the desires that I had for say, for sex, for drinking, for just messing around, hanging out, doing whatever. Like I fought hard against all of that and was just super, super focused. And it led me to a lot of great things. You know, it led me to exploration with psychedelics. It led me to then working with Ayahuasca and and, you know, that that really cleansed me and, and helped me you know, get my mind right and help me get sober, like stay sober.
Garett:Yeah. Yeah. No. I mean, there's definitely it could be thought of as being imbalanced in the other way, but, you know, sometimes I think you got to do that, right? If you were an extreme one end, you got to kind of go to the extreme in the other for a little bit and then eventually bring yourself into the middle.
Garett:So I definitely like that and respect that. And yeah, I want to get into some of Ayahuasca and the plant medicine stuff. But one other question is so you kinda mentioned about spirituality and and stuff like that, and I know that the plants can definitely lead you there as well too. Did you have a spiritual practice before or did you have yeah. Or was or or is that something that's evolved?
Andrew:Yeah. I did for those so I think it was when I was 24 that I first got invited to a weekend of ceremonies. Mhmm. And it felt like right timing. It was very synchronistic as we've experienced.
Andrew:We've probably had this experience for ourselves and we hear it from people time and time again that, you know, you were thinking about it or you're kind of putting it out there that you'd like to, you know, sit in ceremony and then all of a sudden you're talking to someone and they, an opportunity opens up. Right? And so that's sort of sort of that's what happened to me with a woman that I had met. And as well I was giving her a ride because I worked driving a shuttle for a car dealership. And I was we started talking and I said to her, yeah, I'm really I'm starting to learn how to meditate and I don't really know what I'm doing, but I'm reading books and I'm I'm watching videos and stuff.
Andrew:She's like, well, I have a practice. Like she basically had a healing and coaching practice. And she ended up becoming my first mentor and and healer that I worked with every week for three years. I did sessions with her, but then she shared with me in one of the sessions, she said, hey, there's this, I got invited to this weekend of ceremonies that I can't go to. I don't know if this something you'd be interested in, but it's happening down in Bend, Oregon.
Andrew:And, you know, would you like to take this opportunity? And I was like, oh my gosh, that'd be amazing. I've been watching, like YouTube was starting to grow then. And it's like I've been watching YouTube videos about, you know, documentaries about Ayahuasca and and all that people experience with it. So it just came to me after I had been thinking about it and I had no idea how to how to connect with anyone to be able to do that.
Andrew:And, so I had already been working with her and like doing certain types of meditation practices, sound healing, you know, emotional release practices, emotional freedom techniques, stuff like that. And so yeah, I was very focused in my practices already. And then the plant medicine realm opened up, which I'm really glad that I had already engaged in starting to have mindfulness and meditative practices. Because I think that makes a big difference, when you have that, those natural integrative practices worked in outside of ceremony.
Garett:Yeah. Yeah. No. I love that. And, you know, one of the sayings in the Ayahuasca world particularly is that when you're ready, the medicine will find you.
Garett:And it's fascinating because your story, just like even like mine and so many others, is it it does. That seems to be true. Like, were aware of it, but then all of a sudden, it seems kind of out of nowhere that this opportunity just presented itself. And Yeah. So I love that.
Garett:What was that first experience like with Ayahuasca?
Andrew:Gosh, that was incredible. I went and I dove, I did three nights in a row. My first time it was down in the middle of the desert and bend in this kind of rustic, like off grid house and there's like 25 other people. And, yeah, it was really profound. It really it awakened something in me.
Andrew:It's sort of like, I feel like it really awakened my path. I was like, okay, I really felt like like I'm on a path now. Like this is clear. I'm meant to be working with this medicine along with the other practices and focuses that I have. And it was really, it was really incredible as well the dreams that I had leading up to those ceremonies.
Andrew:Once I said yes, as we know, as everyone knows, it's like once you say yes, the process begins. And I can still vividly remember these dreams, like this dream where it was probably a few days before ceremony. I was all of a sudden found myself in my dream. I was laying on this like lake of golden amber, like golden amber red water. And then there were these beings or presences of light that started shooting down and entering my body.
Andrew:And it was this incredible ecstasy and bliss and, like, cleansing energy. And then I realized I was dreaming, and I said, wow. This is incredible. I was dreaming, but it was also this very real experience where it was these presences of light entering and cleansing my body and over and over again. And and then I woke up just like, I didn't even know what think about what just happened, but I knew that there was a connection between the ceremonies that I was preparing to do and that dream.
Andrew:And I sat up and I meditated and I felt that and I just gave just felt so grateful that I had gone from where I was to just feeling this complete self loathing, just kind of, you know, just feeling like shit all the time, feeling like the only times I really felt good was when I was drunk or high or, and feeling like now I'm now I'm opening up to a whole new, a whole new possibility of how I can live, how I can feel. I couldn't believe I was feeling the way I did without, you know, a substance, without drinking, without taking some Percocet. You know, I was just it was incredible.
Garett:Yeah. That's amazing. So it sounds like it was pretty pretty profound experience and and life changing, life altering.
Andrew:Yeah. Yeah. And of course, the three nights of ceremonies, it was intense. It was really intense. But but yeah.
Andrew:So good.
Garett:Do you know if that was, done in the Shapebo tradition?
Andrew:It was. Yeah.
Garett:Nice. Yeah. It's funny what you brought up again of, like, the the the joke of that's not really funny, but in in kind of Ayahuasca and plant medicine circles is like, does the ceremony start? And oftentimes it seems to start the moment you make that commitment to attend, whether that's, you know, a day before or two months before, and that things start changing and bubbling up to the surface, and and you kinda realize that time is not linear.
Andrew:Mhmm.
Garett:And so Mhmm. Yeah. That's a that's a really cool experience. So how has so you were you were doing martial arts and and and meditation and a lot of that stuff kind of before you found the Plant Medicine, and how has has that how did you integrate that into your practices? And, yeah, we'll start there.
Andrew:Yeah. Jiu Jitsu has always been like kind of I'm noticing now as I look back at my journey from, you know, about the age of 20. Jiu Jitsu has always been this pillar in my life, which is which is really cool to recognize. It's like in the midst of doing these various different practices and being on my spiritual journey, Jiu Jitsu has been this like life pillar in the midst of all of it. That's helped me to be grounded, you know, strong, push through the hard moments.
Andrew:And so yeah, there definitely I think it's been kind of an ebb and flow where there's been periods of time where more of the emphasis was on doing my healing work or doing the plant medicine work. And then there's been emphasis of time where it's been focused more on my physical training. And it was, it definitely was a challenge throughout my 20s. And I don't even know if I realized it then but how to like, my energy strong for training while also traveling and being focused on on ceremonies. Because very it's very different energy, right?
Andrew:But Yeah. As far as how to how to balance the two, I don't know. I just did everything.
Garett:Mhmm.
Andrew:Just did it. You know? And yeah.
Garett:Do you find that there are similarities of of growth and teaching between Jiu Jitsu and Ayahuasca?
Andrew:Very much so. Very much so. It's really similar. Think in a ceremony, I mean everyone's gonna go to what their frame of references are. But for me, it's like when I'm in a ceremony, I feel like I'm in a, you know, a multiple hour long like really hard role that I gotta stay with, stay present for.
Andrew:Moments of it might be easier or feel good. Moments of it might feel like I'm just, like, getting worked. Just totally worked. But there's all the deep lessons in there, learning how to breathe when you're under pressure, when you're having a hard time, when you're uncomfortable, when you feel nauseous, staying present with it. When you feel amazing, do you have the ability to stay present with it?
Andrew:Right? And so I think definitely there's those core core similarities and teachings.
Garett:Yeah, I agree. I've often said that Jiu Jitsu feels like a physical Ayahuasca, and Ayahuasca feels like a a spiritual form of Jiu Jitsu, even though Jiu Jitsu is very spiritual in itself. But you have the the the ego disillusion in in both modalities. Right? Like Yeah.
Garett:You know, Jiu Jitsu is definitely going to crush your ego and and show you that you are not who you think you are, and Ayahuasca seems to do the same. So
Andrew:Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And I find that for Jiu Jitsu guys, Ayahuasca seems to be a really great fit, a great medicine. Think for just how how we work internally, mentally, emotionally, and, like, sort of the the framework that Jiu Jitsu creates, it's like then you go into ceremony and it's just it's a great fit to do then do the internal Jiu Jitsu.
Garett:Right. Right. So yeah. How do you think So I I mentioned some of the aspects about the the ego dissolution when it comes to Jiu Jitsu. I'm curious of, like, your thoughts on that and how you know, why Jiu Jitsu is is important practice for you and and and maybe why you think it is good for other people.
Andrew:I was just this is just one aspect of it, but I was just talking to another brother yesterday in the gym about he's a he's a border patrol officer, has been for, like, twenty plus years. And he and the guys have mats at their place where they can go and they can train together. And he was talking about how there's a handful of guys there there that they don't really train. They just think, oh, I'm good, know, if I needed to if if anything happened, I can handle it. I'm good, whatever.
Andrew:But then he finally gets them to come train and they do a few minutes of something. They're totally gassed. They have no idea what they're doing. I think one thing is that if you don't train, whether it's Jiu Jitsu or any other kind of fighting art, when you don't train, it's super easy to think that you're more capable than you are and that you're tougher than you are and you know more about what you're doing than you do. Even for me, if I if there's a period where I have to take months off from training, in my mind, I start I I have I catch myself in delusion thinking I'm better than I am because I haven't actually been on the mats with other guys, like, testing me, pushing me, grinding.
Andrew:Right? So if you don't train, it's easy to live in delusion and think that you're tougher than you are or you can fight better than you do. And also when you train regularly then you're putting yourself in those uncomfortable situations where it's forcing you to have actually feel and look at where your weaknesses are and get clear on what you need to do to build your strengths. Right? So you just it's important, especially for us men, it's important to have these practices in our lives that put a mirror up to us and highlight what we need to strengthen and highlight where we're struggling.
Andrew:And if we're willing to say, okay, I see that. I understand that. And I'm willing to do the work to improve there. Now you're not having an unhealthy, unchecked ego. Now you're not living in delusion.
Andrew:What one black belt really increased incredible man who's actually passed away, He would say to guys, there's no lying on the mats. Mhmm. You get on the mats, there's no lying. You can either you can either last ten minutes or you can't. You can either, you know, know the techniques or you don't.
Andrew:And, yeah. And then there's any practice, any discipline that asks us to be consistent day in and day out, that's going to help to hone our ego as well. I don't I don't think so much in terms of getting rid of ego. I think more in terms of training ego, honing ego, allowing our ego to be more healthy, more balanced. And so that's what I think the consistent training will naturally do.
Garett:Yeah. I love that. And, you know, I agree with all that. There's there's something about the the power of consistency. And and, yeah, in Jiu Jitsu, it it just you know, it shows you who you are, and we've all felt it at the beginning of our Jiu Jitsu journeys of thinking we were much tougher and stronger and more coordinated and all the things.
Garett:And then, you know, you have a a rude awakening, so to speak, of, yeah, you are not who you think you are. And it's interesting because in in that moment, and I think this has a lot of parallels to Ayahuasca, When you get presented with that information of, like, you are not who you think you are, you're not as tough or as strong or as smart as you think you are, well, what do you what do you do? Right? What do you do in that moment? Because you you it's like you have a choice.
Garett:You can and and I'm sure you see this as a as a gym owner that there will be a lot of guys that you see that look on their face, and then you will never see them again because they will act like that never happened. They will walk out the door and just kind of erase that from memory. And I feel like the same thing kinda happens in Ayahuasca ceremonies as you get presented sometimes with the real version of you or at least a different version of you, and what do you do with that information?
Andrew:Yep. You know, we have two choices. We can either get discouraged or get motivated.
Garett:Mhmm.
Andrew:And if we can choose to get motivated, now we can be on a good path. We can be on a growth path, a fulfilling path. We choose to stay with being discouraged and and try to push that away, then the struggle is actually gonna amplify. Right? And, yes, an Ayahuasca ceremony will do this intensely, mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually.
Andrew:Well, can. Right? Everyone's you can never say a ceremony is gonna be just like this. Right? Because it's gonna be different for everyone and different each time.
Andrew:But what I've found is a consistent, and I'm sure you have as well, the consistent theme of Ayahuasca kicking my butt, helping me see clearly, helping me work shit out, but then ultimately with the intention to lift me up, to help me, as you mentioned, see that maybe I'm not in ways, I'm not who I think I am, but ultimately what it's trying to do is help me see who I truly am.
Garett:And
Andrew:that's the most empowering thing we can experience. Ultimately, you got to go through the tough parts. You got to go through the washing machine, right, to get clean. And and if you can stick through that that tough period of time, you're gonna come out on the other side being the true you, being the clear version of you. And that's the most fulfilling experience you can have in life.
Andrew:And now we have these practices, these principles, this embodiment that allows us to navigate the challenges, stay present and strong within ourselves, and allow inspiration and creativity to flow through in the most genuine ways possible. I love the quote that Bruce Lee said. He said, don't pray for an easy life, pray for the strength to endure a difficult one because that provides us with the foundation to actually live life in a great way. And whether it's Jiu Jitsu or ceremony, you know, those things help us to embody what that quote is talking about.
Garett:Yeah. I love that quote. And and in fact, I I say it all the time and and I remember it all the time because if you if I think back to my life and and probably the same thing for you and most people listening, that we always think that when we get to a certain level, what whatever it is, that our life will be better. Right? Like, if I get that new job or if I get that promotion or if I get the next belt promotion, everything in my life will be better.
Garett:And what we realize is that the challenges and the curveballs, they never stop coming. Right? Like, you hit that point of whatever you achieve that goal, and there's a moment of, like, you're you're happy and you're proud of yourself, and it doesn't take but, you know, a few days later that all of a sudden a new challenge is going to appear. And so and what I found is that, again, that that's another choice that comes. And and do people break down and and quit and give up, or do you or do you realize, like, hey.
Garett:I've now got more tools to face these challenges, and I can and I can take on more stuff the stronger I get and the better I get.
Andrew:Yeah. Isn't it a funny thing we do all this work to then just get to be kind of servants to supporting other people's process, and then just, and then life, God, everything says, okay, here's more. How do you okay. Here's more. Now what are you gonna do with it?
Andrew:Okay. Here's this here's this issue again that you thought you were totally passed. What are you gonna do with it now? How are gonna respond? Yeah.
Garett:Yep. One thing you said.
Andrew:Opportunity.
Garett:What's that?
Andrew:And I say just kinda like when that happens, I just take a deep breath and go, okay. Thank you for this opportunity. Let's go.
Garett:Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. That's gratitude and being thankful for the opportunities to to grow.
Garett:One thing I wanted to bring up was this concept, because it was something you you were talking about, the the growth in Jiu Jitsu and the growth in plant medicine and, it's showing you, you know, your true self and and who you are or who you not are. Well, I was talking to someone just the other day, and this idea of you know, when we think about Ayahuasca, for example, and and even Jiu Jitsu, some people may not do these things because they have a fear of the unknown. But one of the concepts that someone brought up that I thought was really fascinating is, yeah, there is a fear of the unknown, but there's also a fear of the known. Right? Like, how many how many people don't show up to a Jiu Jitsu school because they don't want to be because there's a fear that they might might be exposed of of how strong or tough they think they are.
Garett:Or likewise, and this is even more of a concept in Ayahuasca because, you know, we definitely think of taking the medicine and doing ceremony as exploring the unknown, and that definitely happens, but there's also a exploring the known and and exploring these things and ideas and thoughts of that we buried deep inside us. So I don't know if you have any thoughts on this idea of, like, the fear of the known versus the fear of the unknown.
Andrew:It would make sense that kind of both of them are happening all the time. Right? Mhmm. And even if if you say, yeah. I'm I'm I don't know.
Andrew:Like, I kind of feel called to ceremony, but it feels I'm just like, I don't know if I can do that. I feel afraid to do that. I feel afraid of what might happen. But when you're saying that, you're talking about the fear. You're you're clearly conscious of this fear that's alive within yourself.
Andrew:So you're struggling with fear. You're struggling with indecision, and that's the known experience that and then maybe there's other details in there. Right? And that's the known experience that you're afraid of. And then you have this idea of how things could change, this idea of these unknown, shifts that can happen beyond ceremony if you haven't done that.
Andrew:And I would just invite someone to say, okay, there's this fear to just like, you can go into all the what ifs, imagine all the different things. The reality of what you can know is that there's a fear there. So can you just get really present with that fear? Notice where you feel it in your body. How does it impact you?
Andrew:You know, what happens when you feel this fear? Get really just get into the present moment with it. Breathe deeply. Think what are the thoughts that are what are the thoughts that go through my mind when I feel this fear? Okay, got it.
Andrew:What are, you know, just feel into the layers that are there. Often it's helpful to have someone, a coach, a therapist, some practitioner hold space for you to do a structured process around that fear. Right? You don't need to do ceremony. You don't need to do Jiu Jitsu.
Andrew:You do need to do what's what's part of your purpose. Right? And so if you're holding back from stepping into doing things because you're afraid of taking a risk, you're afraid of the unknown if you commit to something, then you need to address that. Ceremony might be the thing that helps you address that. And if you're feeling that calling within yourself, if you keep if this recurring theme inside keeps coming up, I should do that.
Andrew:Oh, I really wanna do that. Oh, no. I can't. I can't. I can't.
Andrew:It's not the right time. There's too much going on. What if this what if I shit myself? What if I all these things we can come up with that we'd be afraid of when we've heard these stories. Go in ayahuasca ceremony and it makes you puke and it makes you shit and then you have a hard time.
Andrew:It's a like, take a deep breath, get present with the fear, get present on what you really want for your life, talk to people that you trust, bring a professional in, get some support, and then keep moving forward step by step. If you know that there's a line that you need to go beyond, then you need to face it. You need to take the steps to do that. And it doesn't mean doing alone. That's why I say reach out for support to process that.
Andrew:But you know, if you're listening to this and you know that you're behind the line that you're feeling that's there for you, it's just gonna get more intense. It's just gonna get worse the more you hold yourself back from facing whatever's there.
Garett:Yeah. The the obstacle is the way. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Garett:Yeah. That's kinda what what you were saying was making me think of of that kind of idea of when things are coming up and the fears and whatever. It's like, oftentimes that's an indicator of maybe that's the way I should walk, that's the path I should go.
Andrew:Right, right. And sometimes it can be hard to get that clarity and that's why we have people like coaches, therapists, different practitioners. It's exactly the purpose. We're actually not meant to go at these things alone. Sometimes we can have the awarenesses alone and take action.
Andrew:Like I took action, I took my initial action alone that I described where I had my own awakening and I shifted a bunch of stuff myself. But then I was still in that I could only go so far by myself. I had to have other mentors, teachers, healers to support me. And it's just like training Jiu Jitsu. It's like you can only go so far training with your buddy in the garage or the backyard.
Andrew:Right? You can you can get better than you would have if you didn't train with your buddy and watch videos and all that stuff. But you grow exponentially and get exponentially better when you go to a gym and there's a black belt there running classes teaching you who's been through years of the grind and knows all the various ways to teach you and help you learn faster. Know? So, yeah, you got to figure out what you need to do and take those steps and get get support.
Andrew:We're meant to collaborate with each other.
Garett:Yeah. I love that. I love that. Because especially men, sometimes we have a hard time asking for help. And, you know, it's like, at the end of the day, the journey is yours and yours to walk alone, but that doesn't mean that you cannot get help.
Garett:And, yeah, and getting people who have walked a similar path and can tell you, like, hey. I I have some experience on what you're going through, and, yeah, learning from them and listening to them can exponentially improve your your your journey or or or speed up the process of your growth because you're actually getting help, you don't have to reinvent the will all over again.
Andrew:I think a helpful thing to remind, especially for men is like all everyone in every realm who is the most successful have they've all had coaches. They've all worked with a coach, a therapist, done some kind of mindset work, whereas someone else guided and supported them. All the most successful people. So it's far from a weakness. It's far from an indication that something's wrong with you.
Andrew:It's like, no. If you want to be if you wanna be fulfilled within yourself and if you wanna be one of the the best in your world, business, sports, whatever. Right? You need someone in your corner supporting you with your mindset, your approach, your embodiment.
Garett:Yeah. I love that. When so you you did your first plant medicine ceremony in your twenties. Correct?
Andrew:Yeah. I was 24.
Garett:24. And how old are you now?
Andrew:38.
Garett:38. So how has your so that's over fourteen years, I guess. So how has your relationship with the medicine changed since that initial ceremony to to now, fourteen years later?
Andrew:Well, think in one sense, like anything, it's matured. You know, I've matured in my perspective, my understanding of plant medicine work. It's been a while since I've sat. I, you know, I don't feel that it's something that I need to do need or even feel the calling to do as often. I feel that the lessons are there, the embodiment's there, the energy's there, the medicine's there every day with me, still acting as one of my teachers and guides.
Andrew:I feel I'm still integrating all those ceremonies that I did on a daily basis. Not as like this extra work or chore, but it's just there. It's just there in me, you know, integrating and I'll have moments where I go, oh, right. That moment in ceremony, this is what it was trying to ultimately bring to me, teach me, help me see and understand better. And now over the past five, six years, I've been helping bring a lot of other men to the medicine.
Andrew:And that's been a really fulfilling journey. So that's been a shift and something that's been really meaningful and amazing to see the benefits that it's had for other men and helping them do their work, through ceremony and with different medicines. So yeah, I just see over time I see more and more of the holistic benefits that come from from this work.
Garett:Awesome. What do you think is what do you think most people misunderstand about ayahuasca or plant medicine in general?
Andrew:Gosh. That's a great question. I think it goes back to the universal things we're talking about on just like realizing that it's not only about the experience itself within ceremony. One, it's not about having just having a mind altering experience. It's not about the phenomenon necessarily or the effects of a substance.
Andrew:Right? The ceremony is meant to help you be able to be present and embodied in the greater ceremony of life. Right? And so, initial ceremony, at least this is what makes sense to me, is a microcosm of the whole experience of the ceremony of life. And so you go into a ceremony, you're not just going into have an experience with a substance.
Andrew:You're going into the deeply commune with yourself, with the divine, and to have an experience that awakens you in life and to life for the rest of your life. For some people it's one ceremony, supports and gives them what they need. For some people is 50, you know, or more. Right? And it's a part of their lives that they keep that they keep coming back and working in ceremony.
Andrew:But just like Jiu Jitsu, we say in Jiu Jitsu, it's like Jiu Jitsu is not just a practice, it's a way of living. And so this medicine work supports that whether the medicine is a core part of your path or it just helps amplify what is your path and the lessons on your path. It's meant to support, yeah, so much more than just that, those few hours in ceremony.
Garett:Yeah. Well said. And that makes me think of so your your website is called Embody the Practice. And so what does that mean to you? What does it mean to embody the practice?
Andrew:That name that phrase first came to me when I was in my early twenties. I started being more intentional about the way I was living, intentional about the practices I brought in and I was doing a lot of yoga, Qigong, Jiu Jitsu and then began working with Ayahuasca. And one of the things I noticed was that there are a lot of practitioners that were really good on the mats or good in ceremony, but then you witness or hear about these ways that they're out of integrity outside of their professional realm out and off of the mats, outside of ceremony. They're out of integrity to doing this relationships or, you know, hectic and not being honest in various ways and all these things. And to me, it didn't make sense.
Andrew:I was like, why you guys you're like good here, but then you're not working on improving your life outside of the practice. The practice we're not just I don't just train Jiu Jitsu just to be good at Jiu Jitsu. I train Jiu Jitsu to also help me be a better person on and off the mats and help me be more conscious, more in integrity. And so the term like you got to embody the practice. All of our, all of our practices, all our training should be helping to improve our performance.
Andrew:Yes. But also to improve our quality of life and to help us be better human beings for one another. And so that's, that's what it means to me to take the lessons from our practices into our everyday lives.
Garett:Yeah. I love that. You know? And that's been a big that's been a big thing for me too of of we are so much more than ceremony or Jiu Jitsu or anything. It's it's being it's living, and the whole life is a journey and and the process and and being who you are in all aspects.
Garett:The same person on the mats, the same person in your relationships, the same person in ceremony, and same person in business. Right? Like, you are just embodying everything of of who you are and trying to be the best version of yourself in all walks of life, all aspects of life.
Andrew:Yeah. And so as we talked about ceremony in Jiu Jitsu doesn't just teach us over time, it's not just about looking at ourselves and working on what's challenging within those practices, it's now we create a mechanism within ourselves where we're doing that, where we're having a deeper awareness all the time. And it's a practice ultimately it starts as something we do and it becomes what we are. And that's what I view. There's never, you know, I'm always always in that.
Garett:Yeah. That makes me it's kind of like I've heard some some quote along the way. It's like, doesn't matter what you say. It only matters what you do. Right?
Garett:Mhmm. What is a what aspects of of your practice do you still struggle with?
Andrew:That's a great question. One, trying to do too much. So, like, you know, it's really easy for me to just try to do, feel like I can take on more than I can take on, not sleep enough, spread my kind of spread my energy and attention thin at times and I have to learn how to rein that that back in. Because then my the quality of everything that I'm doing goes down instead of staying honed in on like one or two things and like making that, you know, those things as high quality as possible. And I think in general I do well with it but I still can find myself in times like even the past couple weeks I found myself having to take a deep breath and go okay I'm spread I'm spread thin here.
Andrew:What do I but but then have that awareness what my practice is what the practices over the years have helped me to be able to do is to recognize that okay I'm spread thin, let me take a deep breath, not be overly reactive or anxious, take a deep breath and think, okay, what do I need to do? What are my steps here to balance this out, to take care of my energy, to make sure I stay sharp, stay strong, stay present, have time to hang out with my son and wife, have, you know, make sure I get a good night of sleep, all that.
Garett:Yeah. That's good. I've been thinking about that a lot lately too, and a lot of the lessons I've been learning is that less is more. And Yeah. I think about all the people that are successful or that I look up to, and they seem to be masters of their craft in in a very few small areas.
Garett:I'm not saying that we you know, there's all and there's always this idea of of more to do and more to learn. But, yeah, for me, it's it's like, alright. Trying to remove it's not about doing more. It's about removing the the unnecessary and how how do I not spread myself too thin and and be able to focus on key areas of my life so that my life in general can improve.
Andrew:Yeah. Yeah. So it's an ongoing honing process, but that's what comes up when you ask, like, yeah, what's the what's a challenge area for me?
Garett:So one of the things we had talked a few weeks ago, and and you had mentioned that you you really enjoy or prefer working mainly with men, and, curious as to why that is.
Andrew:One, let me set this. I guess this is where I feel called to support the most and obviously being a man I understand I understand the the challenges of men and I think also because for so many men like a traditional therapy like going to the therapist, it just doesn't resonate, it doesn't fit. So many men try to go to therapy and just come back frustrated and it's like, oh, they just tried to get me to sit there and talk about my emotions or be like this or be like that. And so most traditional therapy has a lean towards more of a feminine, disposition or model. And there's a lot of and most men talk about trying to go to a female therapist and it just some some have benefits.
Andrew:It's not to say, you know, I'm just speaking in general to what I've heard from a lot of men and what I've experienced myself. It just doesn't quite like they don't get it, that's not that's not what I need. And so on my journey doing all these different types of work and training that I've received, I feel like I just naturally understand how to sit down with men and help them do their deep work while also coming home to the strength of who they are in a way that resonates for them, in a way that helps them feel really good, really empowered, but not to where they feel like they have to change who they are or they have to get overly gushy or just talk about emotions or all the stuff. Yes we're gonna talk about emotions but it's gonna be in a way that feels fitting, that feels natural. And so just like I think you know women working together is really important because naturally understand what it's like to be a woman, the nuances of that experience.
Andrew:For us as men, it's important for us to specifically work with other men that can understand us, other men that share similar disposition as us because then there's a lot of stuff that can just go unspoken because we just get it. We just get each other. And I see that so many men need support, so many men need more camaraderie, need more connection, need to need to, need and want to understand what it means to embody your greatest strength while also living with an open heart. Right? Because that's where the pain is if we go too far into like just trying to be strong, trying to be macho in a certain way, just trying to be hard but we don't have an open heart then we suffer, then we feel disconnection.
Andrew:If we try to go too strong the other way and which we see a lot now men trying to be embody more emotional intelligence, more emotional availability, more sensitivity. But then they end up going too far that way and they lose their masculine direction. They lose the strength and the embodiment, right? And they become unable to like make decisions and take leadership in moments when it's needed. So I see this really important thing that's happening globally for men or at least when within our society here of finding that integration of the masculine and the feminine, finding that integration of heart and spine in a way that's really genuine and strong and fulfilling.
Andrew:And like this shirt I'm wearing, this is a my mentor started this organization Warrior Sage back in 1999. And it's it's all about that. How to embody the warrior and the sage within. And that's what ultimately what I'm aiming to help more men experience.
Garett:Yeah. I love that. And, you know, it feels like today in in our society that there is a a a spiritual war going on, for lack of a better word, and that there is a lot of that there's even a war between the masculine and the feminine, and and that on both sides that there's this idea of toxic masculinity and toxic femininity, and and those things can and do exist. And it feels like you know, I I call these the the masculine energy and the the feminine energy as their creation energies. They are the most powerful energies in the universe, and they are so powerful, in fact, that when they come together, they have this ability to create life.
Garett:And right now, they seem to be at war with each other for for numerous reasons. And so I I love the fact that people like you are doing this work to help restore what it what it means to be a man, what it means to embody masculine values while also learning how to integrate the the feminine energy within you and also within the society as a whole and helping find balance between all of that. So
Andrew:Yeah. Balance and balance and activation.
Garett:Yeah. Couple more questions. So in in working with with men mainly, do you are there some common similarities you find that men in general are are struggling with?
Andrew:Struggling with a sense of purpose and and struggling with, you know, experiences in the past that maybe have they've had traumas in the past or they've caused traumas in the past and they're still carrying that emotional weight from them and it's hard to be present and it's hard to believe in the greater possibilities of their future. Victor Frankl, doctor Benjamin Hardy, there's men like this who speak to this really powerfully about how you're how you feel and your vision of your future is what determines how you feel in the present moment. So if you're not feeling optimistic about your future, you're gonna feel like shit in the moment. You're gonna feel discouraged. You're gonna feel depressed.
Andrew:You're gonna feel a low sense of self worth. Right? But if you can heal and clear the weight, the pain from the past, you can get fully present, embodied present here and now, and you can start to cultivate and focus on an optimistic and inspiring vision for your future, now you can live well in the present moment. Now you can feel that natural motivation, that natural energy that says, yes, I'm stoked to get up in the morning. My favorite day of the week, Monday.
Andrew:Because it's get to get right back in the rhythm of doing what I love to do. And there's far too many people that everyone knows the common joke or the common sentiment of like, oh, it's Monday. Oh, thank God it's Friday. No, man. Like, shift that.
Andrew:You gotta change what you're doing so that you're stoked that it's Monday again. Right? And then you're stoked maybe you're still you're stoked it's Friday. Yeah. You get to take a break.
Andrew:You get to rejuvenate. Then you get to get back out there and be stoked that it's Monday again. So, yeah. It's feeling that, you know, missing that sense of purpose and connection, which can have all kinds of manifestations. But the core of it is free yourself from the weight of the past, shift those internal limiting beliefs, learn how to have discipline and get really present, and learn how to cultivate an inspiring vision for your future.
Andrew:That's what I help men do. That's that's the general those are the general themes that I see them really struggling with when they come to me.
Garett:Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Sense of purpose seems to be everything for for people, but especially especially men.
Andrew:Yeah.
Garett:So after after you've you've been on this this journey for, you know, a few a few decades now of martial arts and physical training and nutrition and spirituality and plant medicine. So after all that time, and I know your journey is you're still in it, and you're still growing and learning, but what do you think makes for a a good and fulfilling life?
Andrew:Being aligned with your purpose.
Garett:And
Andrew:then like we've said, you know, there's mentally, conceptually having a sense of your purpose and then there's living it. Right? So the combination of living and embodying your purpose as well as cultivating meaningful connection and meaningful relationships in your life, you can do those two things. You know?
Garett:Yeah.
Andrew:Now you're living life.
Garett:Yeah. I love that. So as we get close to to wrapping up here, is there anything else you wanna you wanna say about, what it is you do or the coaching practices or or plant medicine?
Andrew:Well, actually, what I'm feeling moved to say right now is just, like, thank you for the time of wanting to connect and ask me about my journey and and what it is I do. I know that you do really powerful work as well and that you're on here sharing that regularly. But, yeah, it's just really meaningful, that you and I get to jam and that you wanna you wanna hear about my journey. And I hope I was able to articulate that in a decent way that something could land for someone. Someone listening to this could, like I'm hoping that there's maybe just even one or two nuggets that they could say, alright.
Andrew:This applies to me. This is gonna help me with my next steps. Anything else I wanna say? You can learn I I mean, I don't know how you share it, but, you know, people can learn more about the work that I do at embodythepractice.com. If they're in the Bellingham area and they wanna come in and train some Jiu Jitsu, we have endurance Jiu Jitsu.
Andrew:That's at endurancejiujitsu.com. I'm doing a men's retreat in Maine. Actually, first time I'll be going to the East Coast, I'm doing a men's retreat in Maine in October. So next one I have. And I actually have in the works right now a couple retreats in Jamaica, which I did not anticipate, but it's been talk about synchronistic connections and opportunities all of a sudden this one's come up and I think it's gonna be a really really cool opportunity.
Andrew:So, probably do a couple retreats in Jamaica in 2027, as well as a retreat, at least one men's retreat on the big island of Hawaii in 2027. So there's some retreats coming up. There's all that. I work with people one on one, and you can be anywhere in the world. You know, I work with people all over Australia and Texas and Chicago and Europe.
Andrew:So yeah.
Garett:Well, that that's awesome. I I don't know how much time you have, but I'd be interested in hearing a little bit more about those retreats of, like, kind of how long they are and and what someone could kind of expect if they were to join or participate on one of these retreats?
Andrew:Yeah. The one in October is gonna be October twenty first through twenty sixth on Vinylhaven, which is an island off the coast of Maine, which I've never been there. I think it's gonna be a really cool unique opportunity to connect with the land there and go deep with a good group of men. We're having a maximum of eight participants, so pretty, you know, intimate group there. Pretty much all the retreats I do are around 10 participants.
Andrew:I don't do anything super big. I like that group size. This one in October is gonna be, you know, centered around doing your your healing work, your growth work. There's gonna be specific processes and experiences that I guide. This one will not have any plant medicine involved into it.
Andrew:The ones when we go to Big Island usually do. But I'm also collaborating with another man who's strong first certified in the kettlebell system. And, so in the morning, we're gonna do, like, some good hard kettlebell workouts every morning and then, just good deep inner work throughout the day and time to connect, hang out, be in nature. So that's that's gonna be mainly what we do in that one. The retreat in Jamaica, I'm gonna be collaborating with a good colleague, an amazing brother of mine named Bhaskar Goswami, who he has he's like the retreat master.
Andrew:He's done hundreds of retreats, way more than me. He's, deeply trained in yogic teachings and a number of different modalities. And this man, when you're when you're in his presence, just something switches on. Just like, he catch he lock eyes with buscar, and it's just like this combination of heart and fire and inspiration and love. And he's just I just love him.
Andrew:He's a he's a dear brother of mine and an amazing practitioner. I'm really excited to collaborate with him for the first time on a retreat and that's what we're going to be doing in Jamaica. That's that one's actually going to be coed. And then I want to do a Jiu Jitsu retreat in Jamaica if we can get some mats there too. That will probably be a men's Jiu Jitsu retreat.
Andrew:And then the Big Island men's retreat, people can go on my website, embodythepractice.com and see the Big Island men's retreat. We have a lot of videos and pictures and descriptions from past retreats. That's a powerful experience that we incorporate medicine work, we incorporate deep inner work, and we take you around the island to really sacred places that just by being on the island and being in those places themselves, you're gonna have an energetic and spiritual activation.
Garett:Nice. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. That's well, that sounds cool.
Garett:And Yeah. Yeah. I just wanna wanna thank you for for taking the time, and and thank you for doing the work. It's it's awesome to meet someone like you who seems to be kind of embracing the the physical, the mental, and the spiritual and and and working in all three of those domains. I feel like that is something that's that's rare.
Garett:So, yeah, I just wanna thank you for for doing the work.
Andrew:Yeah. Thank you as well, Garrett. Appreciate you, man. Awesome to meet you and connect with you.
Garett:Yeah.
Andrew:And I look forward to more, man. We're gonna I know it's in our future soon to train and to to sit ceremony at some point. I feel I feel grateful for the opportunity to eventually sit ceremony with you. And and, yeah, we got some good times ahead.
Garett:Yeah. For sure. We're gonna yeah. I'm actually planning on getting up to to your gym, I think, next Friday. So
Andrew:Heck yeah, dude. Yeah. K. Awesome. Awesome.
Andrew:Awesome. Yeah.
Garett:Cool. Cool. Yeah. Thank you. And, yeah, we will we will be in touch.
Andrew:Sounds good. Have an amazing rest of your day. And to all anyone listening, thanks for listening. And, yeah, reach out reach out to Garett. Reach out to me if you're ready to take next steps on your journey.
Garett:Yeah. Will do. And, yeah, I'll have all the links to all your stuff in the in the show notes.
Andrew:Alright. Thank you, man. Alright. Alright.